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ficwizeSo, about two weeks ago, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
handyhunter put up this test-
From theangryblackwoman.com: The Bechdel Test and Race in Popular Fiction
1. It has to have two POC in it.
2. Who talk to each other.
3. About something other than a white person.
Clearly, it is taken from the Bechdel Test that relates to Gender:
1. It has to have two women in it.
2. Who talk to each other.
3. About something other than a man.
The Angry Black Woman (andhandyhunter) then proceeded to talk about various fandoms and do a basic "measure" of them. I was so fascinated by this idea that I've decided to copy it and apply both tests to my fandoms, just to see what there is to see.
I'm increasingly curious as to what fandoms actually pass these tests, especially given all of the recent commentary about Supernatural and Glee, which are both shows that I enjoy, but neither show generally inspires me to fic.
Anyway, onto the tests. These are all shows that I watch regularly. I really want to do this for other forms of fandom, too – comics, manga/anime, but I don't have time at the moment. I will come back to it though.
Shows (These are basically the shows that I like, even though I am not fannish about some of them. And after listing them, I'm really glad that they're not all on at the same time.) Also, for purposes of this little project, I'm not going to consider background characters as recurring characters, even if they appear in several episodes, unless they have fairly large speaking roles.
30 Rock
I am about halfway through the first season, and this show definitely passes both the Race and Gender Bechdel tests. It is also one of the only shows that stars a female lead. Regardless, there are two recurring women characters, who often discuss their careers with each other, as well as their fears and individual personality quirks.
There are three minority recurring characters (two black and one Indian). There have been episodes where these characters talk to each other about their careers, their talents, their abilities, and even the effects of racism on them personally.
So, in sum, in addition to being funny, this show gets an A for both tests.
Being Human
This stars two white men and one black woman. By virtue of that alone, I think it fails both tests. I am wracking my brain to think whether it ever passes the test, and despite my love for all the characters, I don't think it does. The only conversation I recall Annie having with another woman revolves around Annie's ex-boyfriend.
So, for purposes of this project, it's a double F for this show.
Big Bang Theory
Let's see – three white men, one Indian man, and one white woman make up the central cast of characters. I've only seen the first season, so if things change in season 2, please don't spoil me!
That said, there are instances where Penny is talking to other women, but I'm 95% sure that it always either about one of the boys, or about someone's boyfriend. I'm not sure that I'm aware of Raj ever speaking to another character of color. It's been a while since I've seen this show, but I'm fairly sure that I'm right.
So, another double F. At least for season one.
Burn Notice
This hurts me, because I adore this show, but the main cast is two white men and a white woman, with a strong secondary cast consisting of another white woman and another white man. Then there is a recurring cast made up of yet more white women and men, with one detective played by Moon Bloodgood (Irish, Dutch, South Korean heritage).
I haven't finished the third season yet, but as far as I can recall, any conversation Fiona has with another woman is usually about a man, either Micheal or some abuser that Fiona and Michael are going to protect the woman from. While there are a fair number of strong women characters, I do not think that this show will pass the Bechdel test.
I would love to be wrong about that, so if someone remembers something that I'm forgetting, please tell me. However, I think by virtue of the fact that I’m forgetting it, it is pretty much a done deal.
Double F.
Doctor Who
The cast for this show is huge, but generally speaking, the Doctor and his companion make up the recurring cast. Since they do not alone pass either test, I'm considering for this show episodes that feature casts coming and going.
Martha Jones – one of my favorite characters ever – is both black and a woman. She speaks with other women about many things, including the Doctor, but not solely about the Doctor. She also speaks with her family about her career, although not with any great detail that I recall.
Rose has her mother. Donna has her mother. All of the women talk to other women about other things, even if it is not the point of the episodes. So, while it does pass the Gender Bechdel test, I'm not sure it passes with flying colors, as these discussions seem to be more sporadic than as a result of any significant plot point.
Gender: B Race: C
Dollhouse
Oh, people are going to hate me for this one, but there are multiple characters of color who talk to each other (Paul, Victor, Sierra, Boyd, Ivy) about things other than white folk and the women talk to each other about a variety of issues other than men.
On the surface of it, I'd have to say that this show passes both tests. Of course, the squick factor surrounding all these characters is problematic, but…
Gender: A, Race: A
Glee
As a show causing a great deal of stir at the moment, the cast is large and fairly even between men and women, with a good number of characters being minorities. Since there have only been two episodes when I'm writing this, I'm only judging the two episodes, and this is subject to change pretty much immediately.
There are women who talk to each other, but… I think it's almost always about men. Unless you consider Sue and the Cheerios and then it's about cheerleading and their desire to cause problems for the Glee Club, which does count, so this show passes the Gender Bechdel test, but not with any kind of flying colors.
I am wracking my brain to see if I can recall any scenes at all where any of the characters of color spoke to each other. Other than the general scenes of the Glee Club members talking all together, I can't recall a single one. Does this count? I'm skeptical that it does, but it does at least appear in the show.
So, Gender: C, Race: D.
Grey's Anatomy
Much to my surprise, since the quality of this show often leaves something to be desired in my opinion, this show passes both tests with flying colors.
Gender: A, Race: A
House
Oh, House. You hurt me so. Various seasons of this show would fail the race portion of this test. However, if I look at last season, there were several episodes that passed the test with flying colors. Kutner and Foreman spoke frequently about patients and the job. For the purposes of this test, I do not think that discussing a white patient equates to failing.
It passes the gender portion of the test easily. Cuddy, 13, Cameron – all of them have discussed various issues (not about men) with each other and with female patients.
Gender: A, Race: A
Law & Order: SVU
In ten years, this show has managed to pass both tests. But not well, I don't think, especially the race test. While there have been multiple occasions where minority characters worked together and spoke with each other about the case, their lives, and random other details, in ten years I don't believe it has happened that often.
There are several women characters who recur, although not as many as I would have suspected given the longevity of the show. They do speak with each other about a great deal, but most of the show revolves around sex crimes, so I'm not 100% sure that a discussion about their job is completely above board for the purposes of this test. Still, there have been instances of the women talking about issues ranging from mental illness to religious rights and freedoms.
Gender: B, Race: B
Leverage
As much as I love this show, it doesn't pass the Race portion of this test. It has one of the best characters of color in it – Hardison! – but he rarely interacts with other characters of color. In fact, while I'm wracking my brain here, I'm not positive he ever does. Help me out, if you're still reading? Does he?
There are two women in the cast, and they do discuss the job with each other, although more often than not, they're discussing Nate or one of the other male characters, or a female "victims" situation.
Gender: C, Race: F
Primeval
I quit watching after season 2 and am not sure I will ever watch season 3, but I include this show because I really loved it when I loved it. And having said all that, I must now say that I'm not sure that show ever had a character of color on it, and certainly not one in the main cast.
There were two women on the show, but I don't recall if they ever spoke to each other about anything, even a man. As much as I love the women on the show, I do not believe it passes the test.
Gender: F, Race F-
Private Practice
Like Grey's Anatomy, this show passes both tests with flying colors. Like Grey's Anatomy, I have serious reservations about the value of this show, only I can't stop watching it.
Gender: A, Race: A
Psych
A main cast of two, one white guy* and one black guy. *For the purpose of this analysis, I will ignore the fact that James Rhoday is actually a person of color, and focus on the fact that Shawn Spencer is most certainly not a character of color.
The additional support cast includes two women and two men. The two women are shown talking to each other about work, including about being women in a predominantly male (police) work force.
Gus is black and he has frequent conversations with his family, as well as with various girlfriends who are not white. While a good number of these conversations do focus on the fact that Shawn is a nutcase and/or Psych, they also focus on Gus's life independent of Shawn and, therefore, pass the test.
Gender: B, Race: B+
Supernatural
I really feel there is little point in even discussing this show with much detail. Two white men, and now a white man angel, the women and characters of color usually die. I do not recall ever seeing the women talk to each other about something other than one of the boys, either.
Gender: F, Race: F
Sanctuary
A main cast of 5, two white men, two white women, and a Bigfoot. There are two more recurring white male characters. There are no significant characters of color. The women are the focus of the show, and this is one of the other shows where a woman is the lead. A mother and daughter pairing, both women often talk to each other about anything but men.
Gender: A, Race: F
Torchwood
So, if we look back in the day, we had three white men, one white woman and one Asian woman. I'm wracking my brain, but even when Martha is on the show, I don't know that she and Tosh ever spoke to each other in any meaningful way. Tosh and Gwen do speak to each other, but it is most often about men, although it is sometimes about the case of the week.
Gender: C, Race: F
Now, having gone through my own, completely unscientific analysis of these shows, I am curious as to why some of them receive a higher level of dispensation than others. I realize that my tastes are sort of varied, and there tends to be a bit of something in most categories in this list, but there is definitely a bewize-bias in everything on this list. This is the content of *my* tivo.
(If you read all that, I'd love to hear your comments on these shows, or comments on the shows that you watch. And I'd love to know why some shows engender more negative comments on race and gender issues than other shows that I don't watch.)
For example, and off the top of my head, I've heard Torchwood criticized for gender issues, but not race issues. I've rarely heard Doctor Who criticized for either. Both have room for improvement, from what I can see. Leverage seems to often be praised for having a character of color in the limelight, while from what I can see, it doesn't pass the Bechdel test in terms of race, when Dollhouse, which stirs nothing but fan controversy, does pass the test.
I realize that a lot of the problems can come about from exactly how the cast is portrayed (Dollhouse), or that problems can be soothed by having a minority character appear a central part of the cast (Psych, Leverage), but like I said – this is just a starting place for thinking.
And as always, there is tons of room for disagreement. Feel free to point out anything that I missed, please.
handyhunter put up this test-From theangryblackwoman.com: The Bechdel Test and Race in Popular Fiction
1. It has to have two POC in it.
2. Who talk to each other.
3. About something other than a white person.
Clearly, it is taken from the Bechdel Test that relates to Gender:
1. It has to have two women in it.
2. Who talk to each other.
3. About something other than a man.
The Angry Black Woman (and
handyhunter) then proceeded to talk about various fandoms and do a basic "measure" of them. I was so fascinated by this idea that I've decided to copy it and apply both tests to my fandoms, just to see what there is to see.I'm increasingly curious as to what fandoms actually pass these tests, especially given all of the recent commentary about Supernatural and Glee, which are both shows that I enjoy, but neither show generally inspires me to fic.
Anyway, onto the tests. These are all shows that I watch regularly. I really want to do this for other forms of fandom, too – comics, manga/anime, but I don't have time at the moment. I will come back to it though.
Shows (These are basically the shows that I like, even though I am not fannish about some of them. And after listing them, I'm really glad that they're not all on at the same time.) Also, for purposes of this little project, I'm not going to consider background characters as recurring characters, even if they appear in several episodes, unless they have fairly large speaking roles.
30 Rock
I am about halfway through the first season, and this show definitely passes both the Race and Gender Bechdel tests. It is also one of the only shows that stars a female lead. Regardless, there are two recurring women characters, who often discuss their careers with each other, as well as their fears and individual personality quirks.
There are three minority recurring characters (two black and one Indian). There have been episodes where these characters talk to each other about their careers, their talents, their abilities, and even the effects of racism on them personally.
So, in sum, in addition to being funny, this show gets an A for both tests.
Being Human
This stars two white men and one black woman. By virtue of that alone, I think it fails both tests. I am wracking my brain to think whether it ever passes the test, and despite my love for all the characters, I don't think it does. The only conversation I recall Annie having with another woman revolves around Annie's ex-boyfriend.
So, for purposes of this project, it's a double F for this show.
Big Bang Theory
Let's see – three white men, one Indian man, and one white woman make up the central cast of characters. I've only seen the first season, so if things change in season 2, please don't spoil me!
That said, there are instances where Penny is talking to other women, but I'm 95% sure that it always either about one of the boys, or about someone's boyfriend. I'm not sure that I'm aware of Raj ever speaking to another character of color. It's been a while since I've seen this show, but I'm fairly sure that I'm right.
So, another double F. At least for season one.
Burn Notice
This hurts me, because I adore this show, but the main cast is two white men and a white woman, with a strong secondary cast consisting of another white woman and another white man. Then there is a recurring cast made up of yet more white women and men, with one detective played by Moon Bloodgood (Irish, Dutch, South Korean heritage).
I haven't finished the third season yet, but as far as I can recall, any conversation Fiona has with another woman is usually about a man, either Micheal or some abuser that Fiona and Michael are going to protect the woman from. While there are a fair number of strong women characters, I do not think that this show will pass the Bechdel test.
I would love to be wrong about that, so if someone remembers something that I'm forgetting, please tell me. However, I think by virtue of the fact that I’m forgetting it, it is pretty much a done deal.
Double F.
Doctor Who
The cast for this show is huge, but generally speaking, the Doctor and his companion make up the recurring cast. Since they do not alone pass either test, I'm considering for this show episodes that feature casts coming and going.
Martha Jones – one of my favorite characters ever – is both black and a woman. She speaks with other women about many things, including the Doctor, but not solely about the Doctor. She also speaks with her family about her career, although not with any great detail that I recall.
Rose has her mother. Donna has her mother. All of the women talk to other women about other things, even if it is not the point of the episodes. So, while it does pass the Gender Bechdel test, I'm not sure it passes with flying colors, as these discussions seem to be more sporadic than as a result of any significant plot point.
Gender: B Race: C
Dollhouse
Oh, people are going to hate me for this one, but there are multiple characters of color who talk to each other (Paul, Victor, Sierra, Boyd, Ivy) about things other than white folk and the women talk to each other about a variety of issues other than men.
On the surface of it, I'd have to say that this show passes both tests. Of course, the squick factor surrounding all these characters is problematic, but…
Gender: A, Race: A
Glee
As a show causing a great deal of stir at the moment, the cast is large and fairly even between men and women, with a good number of characters being minorities. Since there have only been two episodes when I'm writing this, I'm only judging the two episodes, and this is subject to change pretty much immediately.
There are women who talk to each other, but… I think it's almost always about men. Unless you consider Sue and the Cheerios and then it's about cheerleading and their desire to cause problems for the Glee Club, which does count, so this show passes the Gender Bechdel test, but not with any kind of flying colors.
I am wracking my brain to see if I can recall any scenes at all where any of the characters of color spoke to each other. Other than the general scenes of the Glee Club members talking all together, I can't recall a single one. Does this count? I'm skeptical that it does, but it does at least appear in the show.
So, Gender: C, Race: D.
Grey's Anatomy
Much to my surprise, since the quality of this show often leaves something to be desired in my opinion, this show passes both tests with flying colors.
Gender: A, Race: A
House
Oh, House. You hurt me so. Various seasons of this show would fail the race portion of this test. However, if I look at last season, there were several episodes that passed the test with flying colors. Kutner and Foreman spoke frequently about patients and the job. For the purposes of this test, I do not think that discussing a white patient equates to failing.
It passes the gender portion of the test easily. Cuddy, 13, Cameron – all of them have discussed various issues (not about men) with each other and with female patients.
Gender: A, Race: A
Law & Order: SVU
In ten years, this show has managed to pass both tests. But not well, I don't think, especially the race test. While there have been multiple occasions where minority characters worked together and spoke with each other about the case, their lives, and random other details, in ten years I don't believe it has happened that often.
There are several women characters who recur, although not as many as I would have suspected given the longevity of the show. They do speak with each other about a great deal, but most of the show revolves around sex crimes, so I'm not 100% sure that a discussion about their job is completely above board for the purposes of this test. Still, there have been instances of the women talking about issues ranging from mental illness to religious rights and freedoms.
Gender: B, Race: B
Leverage
As much as I love this show, it doesn't pass the Race portion of this test. It has one of the best characters of color in it – Hardison! – but he rarely interacts with other characters of color. In fact, while I'm wracking my brain here, I'm not positive he ever does. Help me out, if you're still reading? Does he?
There are two women in the cast, and they do discuss the job with each other, although more often than not, they're discussing Nate or one of the other male characters, or a female "victims" situation.
Gender: C, Race: F
Primeval
I quit watching after season 2 and am not sure I will ever watch season 3, but I include this show because I really loved it when I loved it. And having said all that, I must now say that I'm not sure that show ever had a character of color on it, and certainly not one in the main cast.
There were two women on the show, but I don't recall if they ever spoke to each other about anything, even a man. As much as I love the women on the show, I do not believe it passes the test.
Gender: F, Race F-
Private Practice
Like Grey's Anatomy, this show passes both tests with flying colors. Like Grey's Anatomy, I have serious reservations about the value of this show, only I can't stop watching it.
Gender: A, Race: A
Psych
A main cast of two, one white guy* and one black guy. *For the purpose of this analysis, I will ignore the fact that James Rhoday is actually a person of color, and focus on the fact that Shawn Spencer is most certainly not a character of color.
The additional support cast includes two women and two men. The two women are shown talking to each other about work, including about being women in a predominantly male (police) work force.
Gus is black and he has frequent conversations with his family, as well as with various girlfriends who are not white. While a good number of these conversations do focus on the fact that Shawn is a nutcase and/or Psych, they also focus on Gus's life independent of Shawn and, therefore, pass the test.
Gender: B, Race: B+
Supernatural
I really feel there is little point in even discussing this show with much detail. Two white men, and now a white man angel, the women and characters of color usually die. I do not recall ever seeing the women talk to each other about something other than one of the boys, either.
Gender: F, Race: F
Sanctuary
A main cast of 5, two white men, two white women, and a Bigfoot. There are two more recurring white male characters. There are no significant characters of color. The women are the focus of the show, and this is one of the other shows where a woman is the lead. A mother and daughter pairing, both women often talk to each other about anything but men.
Gender: A, Race: F
Torchwood
So, if we look back in the day, we had three white men, one white woman and one Asian woman. I'm wracking my brain, but even when Martha is on the show, I don't know that she and Tosh ever spoke to each other in any meaningful way. Tosh and Gwen do speak to each other, but it is most often about men, although it is sometimes about the case of the week.
Gender: C, Race: F
Now, having gone through my own, completely unscientific analysis of these shows, I am curious as to why some of them receive a higher level of dispensation than others. I realize that my tastes are sort of varied, and there tends to be a bit of something in most categories in this list, but there is definitely a bewize-bias in everything on this list. This is the content of *my* tivo.
(If you read all that, I'd love to hear your comments on these shows, or comments on the shows that you watch. And I'd love to know why some shows engender more negative comments on race and gender issues than other shows that I don't watch.)
For example, and off the top of my head, I've heard Torchwood criticized for gender issues, but not race issues. I've rarely heard Doctor Who criticized for either. Both have room for improvement, from what I can see. Leverage seems to often be praised for having a character of color in the limelight, while from what I can see, it doesn't pass the Bechdel test in terms of race, when Dollhouse, which stirs nothing but fan controversy, does pass the test.
I realize that a lot of the problems can come about from exactly how the cast is portrayed (Dollhouse), or that problems can be soothed by having a minority character appear a central part of the cast (Psych, Leverage), but like I said – this is just a starting place for thinking.
And as always, there is tons of room for disagreement. Feel free to point out anything that I missed, please.
