More About Writing Women - for my own curiosity. :)

[ficwize]

So, my curiosity knows no bounds. I'm interested to see if my perception is skewed, admitting that my perception is based on a self-selected group of friends and communities on my flist.

So, if you don't mind answering this poll, I'd appreciate it. Also, if you want to pimp it to your flist, I'd be curious to see a large sample of answers.

Thanks!



ETA: Please assume that the "/" mark does not indicate sexual relationships unless otherwise indicated. So if you write a mixture of canon male and canon female characters, please check canon male/canon female. Thanks and sorry for any confusion!

[Poll #1249139]

Comments

[geonncannon.livejournal.com]

The "not femmeslash" question was tough, but I decided I wrote at least two or three that were about the women rather than sex. :D

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Hehehe. I know that a lot of the questions were sort of vague - "primarily about" for example. XD

But I decided to leave them that way so that people could put down what they thought based on their interpretation.

Lord knows, I do NOT claim to be scientific about this! Just curious and nosy. ;)

You also, by far, write more original fiction than anyone else on my flist. :)

[geonncannon.livejournal.com]

Heee, well, that happens when you start getting paid for it. ;-D I am happy to satisfy your curious nosiness!

BTW, I counted Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis as shows primarily about women because, while the focus is usually on the men, I still see the shows as more about the female characters; Sam, Janet, Elizabeth, Teyla, etc. I loves them muchly. :D

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

I counted Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis as shows primarily about women because, while the focus is usually on the men, I still see the shows as more about the female characters

That's really interesting and I wonder how many other people see the show the same way. I don't write/read SG, but I do see a great deal of fic that's about the women characters. And also something called McShep, but I believe that's a m/m pairing. XD

This is also why I left the questions a bit vague. You identify the SG[s] as being primarily about women, which is fun to think about. Much like someone else thought Firefly was mostly about the women.

*ponders thinky thoughts*

[geonncannon.livejournal.com]

~nods~ Depending on who you're a fan of, it's easy to see SG-1 as "The Story of..." whoever you fancy. They did a good job making all the characters interesting and giving them fantastic arcs.

Sam went from an eager-to-please Air Force captain with a feminist chip on her shoulder in the pilot ("Just because my reproductive organs are on the inside instead of the outside doesn't mean I'm not as good a soldier as you."), to a kick-ass Colonel in charge of the most top-secret base in two galaxies in Atlantis ("If you ever speak to anyone under my command that way again, you will not be welcome on this base. Am I clear?").

Watching her evolution is why I love Stargate so much!

[escritoireazul.livejournal.com]

Your poll doesn't have the options I would need in order to participate, so I'm answering the questions here instead.

My "main" fandom primarily consists of women characters.

I don't have a main fandom; in any fandom I write, there are female characters who are interesting and strong in different ways.

Of the fandoms I write most, ____ are primarily about women characters.

Few are strictly about female characters, unfortunately, but all have some female characters as I mentioned before.

I primarily write _________ characters.

Canon female characters, often paired with other canon female characters, crossover canon female characters, or canon male characters. Occasionally canon male paired with canon male as well.

I primarily read _______ characters.

Canon female characters, usually paired with canon female characters if they are paired with anyone.

In the past year, I have written ___ fics primarily about women (not femmeslash).

Even when I'm writing pairing fic, the story is primarily about the woman/one of the women. Not to mention, many of the stories are multiple things, relationships and gen in the background to self exploration.

Female/Male - 6
Gen - 5

In the past year, I have written ___ femmeslash fics.

15

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Thanks for answering the questions anyway! I did worry that I was leaving out too many options, but I figured I'd leave it up to the peson answering to decide how to answer.

You're one of the few people on my flist I would say primarily writes about women (femmeslash or otherwise). You're also one of the few people that I would say writes in fandoms that are primarily about women.

So, it's interesting to me that you don't define yourself that way! I really apprecaite that you took the time to answer the questions the way you did.

(Also, just to be clear here, your fics rock. I get very excited when I see new BSC fics or new Blue Crush fics from you. *grins*)

[escritoireazul.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I would totally define myself as someone who writes about women (both in my fandom writing and commercial writing), but I'm not sure I'd say my fandoms are primarily about women. Though, that's probably because, even though I say I have no main fandom, I still mentally default to The Lost Boys and tend to forget about all those other fandoms in which I've been writing lately. So you're probably right - I would say BSC and Blue Crush and BtVS are big fandoms of mine which are primarily about women, and my analysis of Fast and the Furious focuses on the women, even if other people see it as a story about the men.

I think of myself as a writer who specifically looks for the women when I want to write in a fandom. I also intentionally write about female characters in my professional work.

All this writing of women has influenced what I read, too. I used to read a lot more boy slash in fandom, and didn't mind reading stories with male narrators in commercial work, but these days, I want women in everything, female narrators, villains, heroes, etc.

Your poss is really interesting, and is making me think, which I enjoy. Thanks.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Your post is really interesting, and is making me think, which I enjoy. Thanks.

Thank you for participating! I found your comment about your default setting to be particularly enlightening. I originally came to fanfiction through X-men and it was my deep and abiding love for Iceman that did it. So, I wonder if my perception of X-men being predominantly male, despite having so many female characters, is a left over from that.

*ponders*

[escritoireazul.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. I came into online fandom through Willow/Angel in BtVS, but then spent so much time in The Lost Boys, where there are pretty much two female characters with lines, so I'm pretty sure that influenced how I view my writing. Not to mention, I had to work so hard in order to write female characters, from giving non-speaking characters speaking roles to writing original female characters, so I don't really look at my fandoms as female-centric. Huh.

[rocaw.livejournal.com]

I counted drabbles as fics cuz it's what I tend to write most lately.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

They totally count!

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

I hope I got the point of your questions -- anyway. My main fandoms are mostly mixed gender or male oriented (Harry Potter, SGA) but even with all that, I tend to write mostly the female characters in those with a hefty dash of male characters too/around.

(edited to add a case in point -- I've recently started writing NCIS, and in spite of the very male cast and angle of the show, I have focused almost exclusively on the women - Jenny, Abby and Ziva)

The exceptions are Gilmore Girls and Buffy, which are very female oriented, obv.

(Also, I don't write sex, so that maybe should remove me from the last Q. But I answered anyway :)

Edited to add more as it occurs to me -- Being female, I think I find myself focusing more on women in these shows as I watch, so when I start ficcing, that's where my attention has lain.

See? Now you have given me thinky thoughts.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

I like when you have thinky thoughts. It's more fun that way!

The questions were sort of deliberately vague, because I'm interested in your peception of fandom, not mine. For example, you defined SGA as a predominantly male fandom, and someone else said that they believed it to be predominantly female.

Different perceptions of the same show are fascinating. Both of you write the women characters, so that doesn't explain it. I'm not sure what does (nor am I sure it matters). It's just interesting.

The femmeslash question was based off left over thoughts from the recent femmeslash ficathon (which I didn't particiapte in and cannot remember the name of), but a lot of the participants commented on the relative unracy ratings (lots of PG/PG13). The comment was made (by who, I don't remember) that if it had been a m/m slash fest, there would likely have been much higher ratings overall.

That made me think that a lot of the participants were writing because they were stretching their wings and wanted to try and write women. I could be (and likely am) wrong, but it interested me enough that I still recall that. *lol*

Anyway, I'm intrigued by the fact that you focus on women characters even in "male" fandoms. If you don't mind telling me, do you find that the women characters tend to be drawn well? Or do you write them to provide them more of a backstory/reality of their own?

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

Thinking some more.

So, in no particular order, the reason I class SGA as male is because both the show and large swaths of fandom are about the male characters - Mostly Sheppard and McKay. And (this is a big and) the show itself is very male-oriented -- aliens, guns, the military, action. I should caveat this by saying I'm not counting myself as being priced out of the show by dint of my being a chick - I like action and guns and the military, but I still consider these to be more male-oriented of my interests.

More on this area - in my readings and in my interests, I do cast the male/female markers about without putting any positive/negative weight on them. It might be my French language background, but to me, things can be masculine (le soleil) or feminine (la chat) as a matter of nomenclature. True, a lot of these things are historical and culturally weighted (military is for men, as one gross example) but it's more of a mental shortcut for me.

Same thing with NCIS. A male cast and male relationships, about cops and crime.

Now that I give this more thought, I think I tend to case action-oriented shows as more male (crime shows, sci fi show) and relationship shows as more female. Buffy is actiony, but with such a high female cast it's more female in my mind.

The femmeslash thing... I dunno. I think I saw it somewhere that one of the reasons straight female authors can write male slash because it's really about where their interests lie (men having sex) whereas femmeslash isn't in their areas of interest so it's less interesting. The flip of why men like lesbian porn but not gay porn.

As for the women characters I write - they tend to have a lot of unexpressed backstory I want to explore (Ziva in Agent Afloat Atlantis), or have growth potential I want to exploit (Rory in Physics of the Spin). All the characters I write are strong, or at least they are when I write them. I cannot abide uninteresting people (in fics, shows or life). If a character is written drably but played well, I do focus on them (like Elizabeth in SGA -- she wasn't really all that exciting in the first season, but I could watch Torri watch paint dry) to a certain extent.

One reason I pick strong characters is because I write crossovers -- I don't have the time or the energy to make them better people on screen. I need them up and running when the buzzer sounds.

I will provide interesting characters with backstory if I find them interesting, and that is usually because there's a spark of something there (hidden backstory) or the actress makes the character interesting (Jenny on NCIS for example... not really the most sympathetic character... well, ever, but I really liked how Lauren Holly played her and the power struggle with Gibbs onscreen)

and OMG I can go on. Have I cleared things up or am I making things incoherent?

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

You're very coherent. And make interesting points.

I agree about not abiding uninteresting characters and your comments about not having the energy or desire to make them more interesting people when you write them than they are when they are on screen.

You also make a good point about most large fandoms being sort of male oriented (military, fighting, conflict). There are lots of criticisms about women in these shows being too masculine.

Lots more to think about! Thanks!

[mhalachaiswords.livejournal.com]

There are lots of criticisms about women in these shows being too masculine.

But the thing is that women who work in those areas (the military, foreign service, law enforcement, even the more male-dominated areas of academia) behave "more masculine". It may be part of the patriarchy blah blah, but it's a fact. I know; I've worked in several of those areas and if a woman wants to move up in the ranks or whatever, she just keeps in step with the guys around her.

It sucks, but it *is* and that reality can't (well, shouldn't) be ignored.

[jay-of-lasgalen.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting poll. I write canon males (Elladan, Elrohir, Legolas) and sometimes Elrohir/Legolas slash. There is also an OFC I'm rather fond of (Taniquel) who has a very close friendship with Elrohir. One day that will develop into something more!

When I write Celebrian she is usually there just as Elrond's wife, or the twins' mother.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

LOTR is such an interesting fandom for this type of consideration. There really are astonishingly few female characters ever mentioned, and the ones that are tend to have somewhat restricted roles.

Obviously, there are exceptions, as Eowyn shows up on pretty much every KICK ASS female character list ever.

On a side note, when I saw the LOTR musical in London, I was amazed and pleased at how the play used Galadriel so differently. I not only liked her, but I even understood her a little bit. It was interesting!

Thanks for taking the survey!

[happymediocrity.livejournal.com]

Since I read and write primarily yaoi, and a lot of that is short one-shotish things, I write about women surprisingly little for being such a Girl Power! girl. The one exception seems to be my OC Zelda, for my book. And I haven't even written her POV a lot lately, mostly her gay best friend Pascal's...hmm. It's interesting how this poll is making me think of my own writing.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

I write about women surprisingly little for being such a Girl Power! girl

This comment pretty much sums up my own realization about my fandom life. I'm glad I'm not the only one! *lol*

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Would you mind if i steal this poll for my flist?

Since I think I originally brought up the point that i perceived my flist to be different from yours in this respect?

I'm not sure if I will post it or not, i just might want to.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'd love it if you would. I'm really curious now about how "self selection" of flists might be affecting my perception of fandom.

Also, I consider myself to be a feminist. I went to a women's college. I identify with women's issues, so it's a bit disconcerting to realize that I may self-select myself into a primarily MALE fandom experience.

Not that I'm getting rid of any of it/any friends, but I might need to be conscious of that and self-select a larger group.

Thanks for giving me lots to think about. It's been really interesting!

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Understood! And I never meant to question your generalization about fandom overall, b/c I think that's accurate. A largely female audience gives a greater amount of attention to male characters -- overall -- for a lot of different reasons.

What I'm less sure about is any theory that links this with the idea that the female characters who exist are not as interesting -- because I think the people who ARE fannish about those characters disprove that. If there was nothing interesting to find in those characters, then the fandom shouldn't exist at all. It's not that there's no there there, it's that fewer people are interested in exploring it. And I don't mean that as a criticism, just an observation.

Does that make sense?

Also, since you asked about female-centric Marvel fic, xmenfirstclass is a place to start. Most of the posts there, I'd say, focus on Jean and/or Wanda, even though they are heavily outnumbered by the boys in the book.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

What I'm less sure about is any theory that links this with the idea that the female characters who exist are not as interesting -- because I think the people who ARE fannish about those characters disprove that.

I really do see your point. The very fact that there is a fandom for a character would mean that someone finds them compelling and quality enough to explore.

I guess I was just implying, although not clearly saying, that I assumed (yipes! So many qualifiers in this sentence!) that if the characters were "compelling" and "quality" there would be a large fandom around them.

Thanks for the recs to xmenfirstclass. I read those when the ficathon came out and was both impressed and surprised by the number of people who focused on Jean and/or Wanda. It was a surprise, though, because it struck me as being so out of the norm for the X-men fandom.

A largely female audience gives a greater amount of attention to male characters -- overall -- for a lot of different reasons.

I just wonder why, I suppose. It might be that my first suggestion is more accurate. Maybe women (generally) focus on characters they want to be with over characters they want to be?

Or maybe it's a whole other factor that I just don't see.

Also, I really hope I never came across as defensive. You've given me a lot to think about and it's been really interesting. :)

So, thank you!

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I guess I was just implying, although not clearly saying, that I assumed (yipes! So many qualifiers in this sentence!) that if the characters were "compelling" and "quality" there would be a large fandom around them.

It's my experience that there's very rarely a large fandom around the characters I find most compelling.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Why do you think that is?

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Can we table this for a time when I've been able to give it some thought?

I just feel like we're coming at this from completely different angles, because honestly never occurred to me to think that the amount of fic about a character or pairing was in any way a commentary on the quality of the source material so I'm not even sure how to answer that.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Can we table this for a time when I've been able to give it some thought?

Of course!

Any time you'd like to revisit it, let me know.

I just want to state, for the record, that I really hope I haven't offended you or upset you at all. I swear I didn't mean to do anything like that.

I just feel like we're coming at this from completely different angles

I would agree, at this point, and I'm not totally sure how to redirect the conversation so that we are on the same page again. I think you've made some excellent points and that's why I kept asking questions. I was curious as to how you arrived at your conclusions.

Anyway, I hope you have a good night! And get some sleep. :)

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

I think I'm skewing your poll. I've only written Xmen fic this year, and they've been two Hank-focused stories, and one Jean/Wanda XFC.

Sadly, there are very few brainy women characters in the fandoms I follow for me to identify with.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

No, no no! You can't skew the poll. You are on my flist and that's who I was interested in!

Sadly, there are very few brainy women characters in the fandoms I follow for me to identify with.

I also think that I tend to write women characters that I want to be like, or emulate in some way. I think, in large part, that's what I liked about Pepper Potts in the movie. She was professional and smart and witty, with just enough bitchy thrown in to keep her real (imo). And I just didn't identify that way with any of the female characters in the X-men movies.

I like Emma Frost, but I don't want to be her... therefore, I have trouble writing her. Same for Jean, Rogue, Kitty... although I did not mean to imply that they weren't worthy characters of having a fandom around them.

I don't think I'm expressing myself very well. *sighs*

Thanks for your thoughts!

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

This was an interesting poll and really made me think about the stories I write. Since I write mostly SPN and Highlander - No real female characters to speak of it seems i stole Chloe from smallville and created my own OFC just to get some woman around. Add Mag7 (brought Chloe there too)and I am very testosterone heavy.

I never really thought about it until you started asking these questions. I think I've written exactly one story from those fandom that was truly about a female character and that was with Amanda from highlander.(Only Duncan appears briefly on the phone in the end)

Wait I just remembered most of my NCIS stuff is about Abby first - so not as bad as i thought but still that one character from one show. The rest are all guys first.

Interesting. This makes me what to write more girl power stuff!!

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

I have been fascinated by the number of Chloe/SPN crossovers that I've seen. I think you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to finding a strong woman (definitely Chloe!) and putting her into a male dominated fandom, because the fandom itself doesn't supply any (many?).

SPN is interesting because the fandom itself had such a HUGE reaction to the female characters, and it was predominantly negative.

Interesting. This makes me what to write more girl power stuff!!

YES! GIRL POWER!!

[strangevisitor7.livejournal.com]

SPN fandom is so full of wank - I stay away from the discussions. Dean and Chloe are perfect for each other IMHO because she can stand up to Dean, the supernatural is nothing new to her and the SV folks don't appreciate her!

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

Most of my fandoms aren't female-centric, but I do tend to write about the female characters, gen or femslash. Supernatural is a tricky one because the main characters are both male and so is more than half the supporting cast, but of my two fics there one was gen about male characters with a female OC, and one was het from a female perspective.

[ficwize.livejournal.com]

Most of my fandoms aren't female-centric, but I do tend to write about the female characters, gen or femslash.

What draws you to the characters you write about, if I can ask?

And I agree that SPN is tricky. The fandom itself had such a HUGE reaction to the female characters, and it was predominantly negative, making it interesting to write females in the fandom.

That said, I've read some really good SPN fics from Missouri's pov and from Ellen's pov.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[st-aurafina.livejournal.com]

I went back to have a look at what I'd written - there were more f/f and m/f than I expected. I've written very gen-ish Scott/Jean, and gen Eletktra & Mystique, which I was surprised at since I would have said that my OTPs in X-Men were Charles/Erik and Scott/Logan. But looking with a critical eye, most of the fics I've written with female characters have been written for prompts. Most of the fics I've written spontaneously have been male/male.

It's an interesting way to look at oneself - I know that when I'm dabbling in a new fandom, the pairings I see are slash, not het. And more m/m than f/f. Weird.

Thanks for such a thinky post!

[invicta-affect.livejournal.com]

Female fic is interesting. It's slightly easier to write - as I am female - but at the same time it can be more difficult.
It's not something I read often (but then criteria as to what I generally read are rather small), but when I do, it's often great stuff.

Can't say I'm one for femmeslash though. I have enough problems with slash :P